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Upgrade Ubuntu or not (strictly from the sound quality perspective)?
#1
Since the Ubuntu 16.04 is EOL and not supported any more, I was thinking of upgrading it.

For me, the sound quality is the most important aspect of using Snakeoil in the first place, so I'm postponing the update to the latest Ubuntu version since there is no custom realtime kernel for it yet.

Because of this, the upgrade to 18.04 seems like the obvious choice, but I'm concerned about the sound quality after reading this two years old post from @agent_kith :
 
(27-Apr-2019, 08:53 AM)agent_kith Wrote: Also there's distribution upgrades (do-release-upgrade). In my setup, 16.04.x sounds better than 14.04. But 18.04.x seems worse than 16.04. I'm sure if I spend some time and change a few things, 18.04 with some yet to discover tweaks will sound even better than 16.04.

What is the current situation regarding sound quality differences between Ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04?
I'm using Snakeoil 1.2.1 firmware and LMS 8.2.0 with Squeezelite 1.6.4.

If decide to update to 18.04, what is the correct way to do it and to preserve all of the custom Snakeoil goodies that I have now in 16.04?

I see various tips on the internet regarding the correct way of upgrading, but I'm affraid that some of them will mess up the current custom Snakeoil instalation.

When I SSH to my Snakeoiled NUC, I get this message:

Welcome to Ubuntu 16.04.7 LTS (GNU/Linux 4.4.9-rt17-snakeoil-x64 x86_64)
New release '18.04.6 LTS' available.
Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it.


It says that I should simply use the 'do-release-upgrade'  command, but some sites say that I should use much more elaborate procedure with more steps:

https://www.liquidweb.com/kb/how-to-upgr...ntu-18-04/

What to do, what to do!?!? Smile
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#2
(26-Oct-2021, 02:04 AM)koko6969koki Wrote: Since the Ubuntu 16.04 is EOL and not supported any more, I was thinking of upgrading it.

For me, the sound quality is the most important aspect of using Snakeoil in the first place, so I'm postponing the update to the latest Ubuntu version since there is no custom realtime kernel for it yet.

Because of this, the upgrade to 18.04 seems like the obvious choice, but I'm concerned about the sound quality after reading this two years old post from @agent_kith :
Personally others, and myself personally don't like 18.04. I have no idea why that is so, perhaps the kernels we tried, or the OS ifself doesn't "gel" well with the rest of the system. 20.04 seems like a better OS, but there's always a chance a RT kernel will ruin it.

Guess at the end of the day, we havn't worked out how the underlying OS influences the sound.

(26-Oct-2021, 02:04 AM)koko6969koki Wrote: https://www.liquidweb.com/kb/how-to-upgr...ntu-18-04/

What to do, what to do!?!? Smile
SSH into the computer, and run
Code:
sudo do-release-upgrade

When prompted to install, say 'Y', when prompted to replace configuration files, say 'N'. And then when prompted to reboot, do so. And that should upgrade you to 18.04.

For experimentation, it's best to have a second (or more) SSD that you can swap in/out of. This way you'll always have a "reference" to compare any new changes. I would suggest if possible get at least a second SSD. Or at the very least, do a disk backup of your existing config before you upgrade your Ubuntu, that way you always have a fallback in case the upgrade don't work. Once you find something better, that then becomes your reference, and you make changes to the other SSD until you find improvements again.
Snakeoil Operating System - Music, your way!
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  • labo, koko6969koki
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#3
(26-Oct-2021, 02:04 AM)koko6969koki Wrote: Since the Ubuntu 16.04 is EOL and not supported any more, I was thinking of upgrading it.

For me, the sound quality is the most important aspect of using Snakeoil in the first place, so I'm postponing the update to the latest Ubuntu version since there is no custom realtime kernel for it yet.

Because of this, the upgrade to 18.04 seems like the obvious choice, but I'm concerned about the sound quality after reading this two years old post from @agent_kith :
 
(27-Apr-2019, 08:53 AM)agent_kith Wrote: Also there's distribution upgrades (do-release-upgrade). In my setup, 16.04.x sounds better than 14.04. But 18.04.x seems worse than 16.04. I'm sure if I spend some time and change a few things, 18.04 with some yet to discover tweaks will sound even better than 16.04.

What is the current situation regarding sound quality differences between Ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04?
I'm using Snakeoil 1.2.1 firmware and LMS 8.2.0 with Squeezelite 1.6.4.

If decide to update to 18.04, what is the correct way to do it and to preserve all of the custom Snakeoil goodies that I have now in 16.04?

I see various tips on the internet regarding the correct way of upgrading, but I'm affraid that some of them will mess up the current custom Snakeoil instalation.

When I SSH to my Snakeoiled NUC, I get this message:

Welcome to Ubuntu 16.04.7 LTS (GNU/Linux 4.4.9-rt17-snakeoil-x64 x86_64)
New release '18.04.6 LTS' available.
Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it.


It says that I should simply use the 'do-release-upgrade'  command, but some sites say that I should use much more elaborate procedure with more steps:

https://www.liquidweb.com/kb/how-to-upgr...ntu-18-04/

What to do, what to do!?!? Smile

In the days when I ran Snakeoil OS for MPD, the sound quality of 16.04 is better than 18.0x to my ears.  Now I'm running Snakeoil OS as the exclusive music file server (as minim server) to my streamer, I found 18.0x produces much better sound than 16.04.  Even I've tried to upgrade 18.0x to 20.0x in months ago, it is bound to crash the system and I have to reinstall everything.  I'm not dare to update it to 20.0x since then.

Of course, you may try this in your system, whatever it happens, you just reinstall everything, it doesn't take long unless your music files are stored in the same PC and you've ruined them while installation. 

Good Luck and Have Fun!  Big Grin
[-] The following 2 users Like hkphantomgtr's post:
  • koko6969koki, agent_kith
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#4
(26-Oct-2021, 07:12 AM)agent_kith Wrote: Personally others, and myself personally don't like 18.04
 
(26-Oct-2021, 10:26 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: In the days when I ran Snakeoil OS for MPD, the sound quality of 16.04 is better than 18.0x to my ears. 

Thanks for the answers! Smile

If you still remember them, how would you describe the differences in sound quality between 16.04 and 18.04?
Why exactly was 18.04 worse?

Part of the problem is that on my Snakoil 2TB SSD I have all my music, so if I mess something up I will mess up everything! Smile
Yes I have all of the music backed up on different HDDs, but I have spent many hours copying it and sorting it on the internal SSD.
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#5
(26-Oct-2021, 09:42 PM)koko6969koki Wrote:
(26-Oct-2021, 07:12 AM)agent_kith Wrote: Personally others, and myself personally don't like 18.04
 
(26-Oct-2021, 10:26 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: In the days when I ran Snakeoil OS for MPD, the sound quality of 16.04 is better than 18.0x to my ears. 

Thanks for the answers! Smile

If you still remember them, how would you describe the differences in sound quality between 16.04 and 18.04?
Why exactly was 18.04 worse?

Part of the problem is that on my Snakoil 2TB SSD I have all my music, so if I mess something up I will mess up everything! Smile
Yes I have all of the music backed up on different HDDs, but I have spent many hours copying it and sorting it on the internal SSD.

You're welcome.  If my memory still serves me well, comparatively speaking, the sound of 18.0x is quite "clumsy", losing focus, a bit chaotic and not touching to me.  The difference is quite obvious in my system, so that to my ears.

BTW, it's always heart resting that cloning your music library regularly.  FYI, I do it once a month.  I understand the restoring is time and energy consuming, yet it's still much better than, after the OS crashed, you found the music library is gone to your memory with it.

Good Luck and Have Fun!  Smile
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#6
(26-Oct-2021, 09:42 PM)koko6969koki Wrote: Part of the problem is that on my Snakoil 2TB SSD I have all my music, so if I mess something up I will mess up everything! Smile
Yes I have all of the music backed up on different HDDs, but I have spent many hours copying it and sorting it on the internal SSD.
My music is on a NAS, which has RAID redundancy, and backed up nightly to an external hard disk. My music is too precious to rely on manual backup, which is too easy to forget.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Snoopy8's post:
  • hkphantomgtr
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#7
(27-Oct-2021, 10:38 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(26-Oct-2021, 09:42 PM)koko6969koki Wrote: Part of the problem is that on my Snakoil 2TB SSD I have all my music, so if I mess something up I will mess up everything! Smile
Yes I have all of the music backed up on different HDDs, but I have spent many hours copying it and sorting it on the internal SSD.
My music is on a NAS, which has RAID redundancy, and backed up nightly to an external hard disk. My music is too precious to rely on manual backup, which is too easy to forget.

Yeah.
I got a fanless PC running SnakeOil OS as music server storing all my music files.  And I also got a NAS to back up all these music files monthly.  Meanwhile, I got a portable HD that cloning that NAS and my cloud drives monthly, so that in case if 1 day I need to escape in rush, I got a handy vault.
[-] The following 1 user Likes hkphantomgtr's post:
  • Bromf
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#8
(27-Oct-2021, 10:28 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: You're welcome.  If my memory still serves me well, comparatively speaking, the sound of 18.0x is quite "clumsy", losing focus, a bit chaotic and not touching to me.  The difference is quite obvious in my system, so that to my ears.

So, if I want to enjoy the best sound quality from Snakeoil, it seems that I just should hang on to Ubuntu 16.04 as long as I can,

...and wait for the new custom realtime kernel from @agent_kith Smile

(27-Oct-2021, 11:13 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: My music is on a NAS, which has RAID redundancy, and backed up nightly to an external hard disk. My music is too precious to rely on manual backup, which is too easy to forget.

I'm doing it the other way round - any new music in my collection is put on my external drives first, and only then it is copied to my Snakeoil NUC's SSD.

This way it is impossible to forget to backup.
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#9
"backup" What is this strange thing ?  LOL

For a "Significant Birthday" I bought, with the best of intentions,  the 3x4TB server drives (Seagate IronWolf ST4000VN008 - hard drive - 4 TB - SATA 6Gb/s)..... and the fan enclosure (ORICO NS800U3 - storage enclosure)...and the UPS (  Eaton 5E - UPS - 1200 Watt - 2000 VA.)...and .... have not got around to doing anything.... now 12 months+... Blush Blush

Too many exciting things !...too much Covid inertia/distraction :-( ....too much new music !!!!...too much anticip............................................................................................ation... for the new Snakeoil Cool   (thanks for that Tim Curry)

Maybe I can search the stores for a round tuit...(https://yorkmodelrail.com/shop/gifts/gif...t-coaster/ )...there were heaps of them in years past...where did they all go ?? Huh

     Robert Burns: “The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”
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#10
(28-Oct-2021, 01:31 PM)Bromf Wrote:      Robert Burns: “The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”
I always thought that quote is from Richard Stienback, or was that John Stienback. From a story call "Of Mice & Men"... For my literature class, it's mice and Romeo & Juliet. Probably the  reason why my English and the grammar still sucks to this day.. Big Grin Big Grin Those works are too artsy for me to learn this language properly. Huh Huh ...

"Best laid schemes of mice & men often goes awry " and "A rose by any other name will smell as sweet..." these two quotes get stuck in my brains ever since my teens. <- The reason why I chose the name "Snakeoil" is also inspired by that "rose" quote. I remembered putting this in the Wiki somewhere, but I can't find a reference of that now. Maybe it's in the old system.

I called this project Snakeoil, and it still sounds good Blush !
Snakeoil Operating System - Music, your way!
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